-edible zone-
--# General Notes , Questions and Answers.
-- "I just received
a TD150mkII from one grandparent and a TD 160 from another as they are
downsizing (amazing coincidence) and am excited to revive at least one
of them, if not both. The 150 seems to work flawlessly, although the
certainly original stanton 500 stylus broke within a week of acquiring
it. The 160 has an audible "wonka-wonka" sound from the motor which I
presume is a worn spindle (?). They are both cosmetically pristine
except I note a patina and fingerprints on the edge of the platter.
Although I certainly don't have the ear (or the money) for very high
end upgrades, I was hoping to restore and upgrade the 150 (has more
sentimental value) and at least fix or replace the motor on the 160.
You have some great tips on upgrade options. I was thinking about
building a new armboard and base, new belt, damping the interior, and a
new/used tonearm/cartridge for the 150. Do you have recommendations
about what you consider to be the best value tonearm and ideas on where
to find (I presume ebay is the main option)? Is there any value to
replacing the RCA interconnects? The originals seem quite shabby."
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--
TD160:
-- The TD160 is trickier to mount different
tonearms, than is the TD150, but custom armboards can be bought or made
to fit a variety of different arms to this model. You can see one page
at the site where I mounted an SME arm to the table and without having
to resort to cutting on any part of the table, keeping it completely
restorable back to original condition should I choose.
-- Early
in the production run it was discovered that the TD160 had a
vulnerability. The motor shaft, on which the drive pulley is mounted, is
a long slender affair that sticks out and up underneath the outer
platter in position to drive, via an elastic drive belt, the inner
platter. The problem is that when people remove the outer platter, they
sometimes allow it to actually strike the pulley, bending the motor
shaft in one unfortunate stroke. Perhaps without knowing it was done.
You can check to see if this is what has happened to your example by
first removing the outer platter, then the belt, and then run the motor
at 33-1/3 while you watch and note any visible wobble (run-out) of the
pulley. Listen for any tic-tic noises. This motor should run nearly
silent when healthy. You have to actually put your ear right next to the
pulley to hear the very soft whirring noise that a healthy motor would
make. Sometimes the noises you hear off the assembled platter drive
system come as a result from belt residue build-up on both the drive and
driven surfaces. These rubbery deposits can be cleaned off safely with
isopropyl alcohol, Q-tips and/or soft cloth.
-- If you can see,
that the drive pulley has a visible wobble to at while spinning, it is
safe to say that it has had impact damage at one point. Some folks have
successfully managed to straighten one of these long slender shafts,
while others have broken the shaft off in the attempt. Shaft
straightening is a learned skill that requires a fixture to hold the
shaft in position just so while force is applied to other areas of it. I
don't recommend this unless you already have such experience in your
background. (like from working in a machine shop straightening shafts)
The best and cheapest source of replacement parts for these tables is
another used turntable of same or similar model. If you attempt to buy
individual pieces from the few suppliers out there that actually have
this stuff, the price tends to be unreasonably high.
-- Consider
replacing the belts on either of these tables. Basic rule for belt
replacement is 3 - 5 years normal use per belt. They stretch and
decompose in the atmosphere. See my page on
Thorens belts.
-- TD150:
There are
plenty of tonearm options for the TD150. However one limiting factor is
the actual weight of the tonearm you mount. If it is too heavy the
suspension of the turntable is collapsed, which leads you on a mission
for finding a stronger spring or 3. (This is another subject which must
be addressed when swapping tonearms..!) As you can see by my site I've
used the SME 3009 S2 Improved arm. This mounted easily and works well
but there might be better choices. In addition to the above
consideration the main thing to chose first is which cartridge, or at
least types of cartridge you intend to use. I have a page on cartridge /
arm matching. Link here:
The primary consideration in this is 1) compliance (strength of
spring tension) at the cantilever on the cartridge, and 2) effective
mass of the tonearm. The page goes into the details. The natural human
tendency, when one first approaches turntable setup and tweaking, is to
think of the arm first then choose the cartridge after that. I suggest
that you consider your cartridge choices first, then consider an arm
known to match well. (Cartridge choice has a huge effect on the sound
you hear, more so than any other component!) Fortunately most cartridges
work well enough on most arms. Many arms have what might be thought of
as medium effective mass (10 to 16 grams) and many currently available
cartridges will have compliance at their cantilevers which will neither
be over-burdened by the tonearm mass nor too lightly loaded for good
tracking.
That said, arms that have been successfully used on
either of your models include those from Linn, SME, Rega, Hadcock,
Graham, ADC, Infinity Black Widow, Magnepan, Alphason, Thorens, etc.
You will also hear some folks make statements that certain arms just
don't have good 'synergy' with certain turntables while others do. I
think that much of this 'lore' comes about serendipitously when a
tweaker has either good fortune or poor after his efforts. I'm more
concerned about the common sense practical issues of mounting an arm and
tend to ignore the folklore.
Personally, I like the TD150 better
than the TD160. In essence both of these models have the same layout,
but the execution differs. The TD160 was designed for mass production by
the --then new-- employees at Lahr (Black Forest area in Germany). The
TD150 was designed by the team in Switzerland before the company made an
alliance with EMT and moved to Lahr, (while leaving most of its
workforce in Switzerland behind!) Many of the structural parts have
different architecture while achieving the same effect. On paper, either
table should be equal to the other in terms of sonic quality, ignoring
the different tonearms used. However the TD150 is easier to mount
different arms to and build armboards for. It is a more compact design
and takes up no more space than is required by its assembled parts.
RCA interconnects. Yes, if you are handy with a soldering gun by all
means install some decent quality RCA jacks at the table. In my case I
duplicated the Thorens grounding scheme. Another thing to consider is
the /power cord/. Look at the back of your computer and notice that the
power cord is detachable from the unit. This type of connection is now
widely used on audio and HT components. If you plan on making a custom
plinth for the TD150, I'd definitely include this type of power cable
attachment.
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"Since I'm a lot newer to this than most of those who visit your site.
Is there information about the basics of restoring the turntables.
Mainly: 1) what oil is best to lubricate the spindle (both are pristine
condition). I saw that someone used Mobil 1. Really? 2) Can I/should I
lubricate the motor? How? 3) Is there a chance of repairing the 160
motor, or how would I find a replacement? 4) Any tips for cleaning the
patina/etched fingerprints off of the platter without damaging it. I
notice that those on your site all look almost silver."
-- Lube: main platter brg...
The factory used a straight 20
wt. turbine oil on this model as well as on many of their previous and
future models. A modern day replacement for this lubrication is
available at your local hardware store. It is sold under the brand name;
*
3-in-One SAE 20 Electric Motor Oil. Do not confuse with ordinary
3-in-One oil which is a much thinner viscoscity.
-- With regard to electric motor lubrication, the 16 pole synchronous
motors used in Thorens belt-drive turntables were designed to be lubed
for life at the factory they came from. In reality it becomes necessary
to apply lube to both top and bottom rotor shaft bushings on the motor
after many years of operation on the factory setup. I have been using
the same oil as is used in the platter bearing for the motor. Apply a
few drops of oil to both bushings. To apply lube to the bottom bushing
it becomes necessary to rotate the entire turntable upside down, or,
apply with the motor out of the turntable. Gravity, you know.
--
The platters and sub-platters on the TD160 and
TD150 were die-cast zinc alloy. It is a white, fairly dense,
non-magnetic metal. Depending on the purity of the zinc that was cast
there may be a slightly different appearance from one platter to the
next. The platters may be polished to a very high sheen using polishing
compounds designed for aluminum or even rubbing compound designed for
automotive paints. However, the metal soon loses the shine and the dull
patina returns. At least you should be able to erase the finger prints
by this method. No damage should come about from using the polishing
compounds.
--#